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Monday, July 13, 2009

God calls any individual

In a (spiritual) galaxy far far away (from Catholicism) there's a church that believes that God has called and may call any individual in the church to any ordained ministry.

I've been trying to keep up with what's happening with the Anglican Communion and saw in the news today that the clergy and laity of the Episcopal Church (The House of Deputies) has, at their General Convention adopted a resolution by more than a 2-1 margin that declares the ordination process of the Episcopal Church open to all individuals. In other words, they voted to bypass the ban placed on consecrating gay/lesbian bishops imposed during the last Lambeth conference. The resolution must still be voted on by the House of Bishops.

UPDATE - The House of Bishops has passed an amended version of Resolution D025 by a nearly 2-1 margin. You can read more about it at Susan Russell's blog.

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, who had given a sermon at the Episcopal General Convention a few days ago that basically told them not to do this, expressed his "regret" about the vote .... "It remains to be seen whether the house of deputies will be endorsed by the house of bishops. If they choose to block that then the moratorium stands .... I regret the fact there is no will to observe a significant part of the moratoria." - Guardian

I saw a comment to all this to a post at Thinking Anglicans that so well expressed my feelings, I thought I'd post it ....

What an unfortunate comment by the Archbishop!

Throughout the process of ACNA setting up its schism in North America, he has been repeatedly asked to support the Episcopal Church and disown the schismatics, yet has said absolutely NOTHING. Yet, when the overwhelming majority of the laity and clergy of TEC give expression to what is, after all, the sensus fidelium, he intervenes immediately, even before the bishops have voted, to try to influence the outcome.

There is something very wrong with his view of how the Church works here. TEC cannot operate in defiance of the sensus fidelium in the reality-ignoring way which the C of E bishops are used to. If two thirds of the fathful believe that discrimination is wrong, then there is no point in trying to cajole them to act otherwise. Such tactics only work in England becase the laity are so supine: but then they are also losing interest in their national church fast, perhaps as a result of a history of such poor, and essentially high-handed, governance.
- Posted by: Fr Mark on Monday, 13 July 2009 at 12:38pm BST

Imagine .... a church that believes God calls any individual .... it sounds like science fiction, but it shouldn't.


Blogger victor said...

Crystal, this is an almost complete copy of the following message that I just sent to The Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops via CECC/CCCB after returning from our modest cottage.

I had received a notice that a priest from the Archdiocese of Ottawa (our capital city) would Effective 1 March 2001: Msgr Patrick Powers would become the new CCCB General Secretary and my reply went almost as follows:

I'm just writing to congratulate one of Saint Patrick Cells who seems to have come from a great distance and hopefully God will allow him some success unless the end of the world comes first before his effective date of March 1, 2010 where Msgr Patrick Powers will become the new CCCB General Secretary.

In order to help God's Children to see the light, I would like to bestow whatever blessings I can on him. As an outsider looking in from our so called holy see, all I believe he really needs to do, is respect our Lord and Savior Jesus The Christ and I'm sure he does.

I agree with your thought, when you ask yourself what do I really know?

Anyway as he probably knows "IT" is so simple and yet so complicated and again all I can say is that if his weakest cell listens to Jesus The Christ and no other old goats, then he should be ok.

In today's world, as harsh as "IT" may seem, what I think we really must focus on with Love is no woman must become official priest and definitely no same-sex-blessing otherwise we're telling Jesus that because HE never allowed a few woman to become His apostles then He did not know what He was doing. In other words Jesus was really just a nice guy who made a lot of mistakes by not making "IT" clear that a man should not have sex with another man and the same for woman but I ask you in All Honesty, how can we "Human Animals" truly judge HIM?.

In closing, I want to wish this cell of Saint Patrick all the luck in this world and whether or not he accepts this message, "IT' will self destruct in God's Time.

Ok sinner vic, that's enough for now! :)

God Bless,



Hey! Come what may, you won't stop praying for me right Crystal? :)

3:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I've never gotten the argument that priest had to be men because the disciples were men. Were not some of them married, and I think they were all jews. The Church has a lot of bright people. Couldn't they come up with something better than the disciples were men. Set me right,if I'm wrong. Am I missing something. Jack

7:21 PM  
Blogger crystal said...

I don't really know what the exact rationale is for why only celibate heterosexual men should be priests, but I think God's an equal opposrtunity caller.

7:28 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

We live in strange times. I no longer have to ponder these things, I merely ask google, "why are priests men?" The ubiquitous EWTN website responds: "Priesthood is a male function, for the reason that a priest is an icon of Christ, and Christ is male. The maleness of Christ is an important sign of His relationship to the Church, His Bride. As in nearly all cultures a man takes the initiative in winning a wife, so Christ took the initiative in winning souls and establishing His Church." “Why can't priests be gay?" I asked, already knowing that many are, and got a link to an LA Times column by Steve Lopez (inspiration for the movie The Soloist) about Fr. Farrow of Fresno:

9:03 PM  
Blogger crystal said...

Hi Richard,

Yeah, I do know that reason given by EWTN and I guess that's the officvial stance. I find it dopey, I guess :) I had a past post about Jesuit William A Barry's views on women's ordination. He writes ...

All my instincts, training and experience lead me to the conclusion that these women [who want to be priests] are experiencing an authentic call of God.

There are gay priests, of course, but I was thinking of the recent Vatican document that basically told seminaries not to let in gays (I had a past post about that too).

9:15 PM  
Blogger crystal said...

Thanks for the link, btw :)

9:18 PM  
Anonymous Richard said...

Was being a little facetious. The explanations all seem tortured and unsatisfying. But the image of the Catholic priest as a man and man apart seems to run deep. I think the Church is in for a bumpy ride. I remember when it was considered absurd that a women would aspire to be a surgeon or a judge. Its not likely that my daughter would want to be a priest but I won't tell her she can't.

1:20 PM  
Blogger crystal said...

Yes, I feel the mystique too of the traditional idea of the priest in the Catholic Church. And I don't mean to diminish its power. But as beautiful as the Catholic priesthood is, I can't deny that I think God calls more than just celibate heterosexual men to be priests. So I guess I throw down on the side of Truth (as I see it) rather than Besuty :)

1:47 PM  
Blogger victor said...

Richard, I guess as far as being facetious, I'm probably in the front line but I ask you where would we all be without a little inappropriate humor now and then? :)

I want to apologize Crystal if I've hit a nerve cause in prayer God seems to have told me to leave everyone alone and not to be so much in a rush cause HE doesn't need my help and everyone has "Free Will" and the more dirt I throw especially when "IT" seems funny, the more ground I will lose.

I guess that I'm blaming myself for not having gone to a certain meeting when one of our pass prime minister came to our city to see whether or not he should approve same sex in Canada. I did have a vision that if I did not go to this meeting, same sex would be passed. To make a long story short even though my daughter told me at the time that the prime minister's convoy stopped at her work for coffee, I put "IT" all together in my brain computer and decided that I was not going to pay the ten dollars and just stay at home and mind my own business cause at the time I would have bet my life that good people in Canada and this good Christian would not really let "IT" happen and I'm not saying this because he sent me a few Christmas cards of himself and his family. It's too long of a story Crystal but God gave me a chance and I missed "IT" but still HE'S given me another one and HE seems to be telling me to mind my own business cause HIS SON knows what HE'S doing.

Before I close, I'll say that my gut feeling tells me that I'll have another chance but probably not in this life time so I must leave you all be because HE said that even if someone came from the dead, whom we truly loved and told U.S. what to do, for some unknown reason that I'm not aware of yet, we still would not listen.

Please forgive Crystal and I'm going to try and wait to make sure that God really wants me to close off my blog.

sinner vic says that he can convince all of you to see "IT" his way but he reminds me of one of my uncle who was going to take another one of my uncle behind the barn and talk to him. God Bless his soul but when my uncle Henrie drank, he slobbered all over the place and made a real fool of himself and as I stood beside MY DAD, as a little man, he looked my then powerful uncle in the eyes and said calmly that there was no way that he was taking his brother Henrie behind the barn to set him straight. God Bless your soul DAD.

I better stop now before I start crying but please remember that "IT" is true that I was born in the year of the dog but I've learned from experience that sinner vic's bark is worst than his bite and he's no match against Christ cause LOVE does have The Grace to save U.S. all if we allow "IT" to take place.

God Bless,


5:34 PM  
Blogger crystal said...


I hope you don't give up your blog. You never have to worry about offending me because we don't agree about stuff - I'm ok with people disagreeing. I'm not trying really to convince anyone of anything, just want to express my feelings, thoughts, and I'm happy enough to hear others' thoughts, as long as they don't get mad if I don't agree :)

6:28 PM  
Blogger victor said...

Thanks for the warm comment Crystal!

I've honestly been thinking of closing "IT" for a long time now but God seems to in this way to convince my heart, mind and guts to hang in there and not take the easy way out again.

Hey, we both know that only dogs get mad and we're humans who were made from God's Original Cell. Right? :)

God Bless

6:55 PM  

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