Church and State, part 2
A few days ago I posted something about the separation of church and state, quoting from a speech given by Obama. Today I saw an article at The Tablet - Rudy’s rude awakening - on the subject of whether Catholic politicians in the US who support legalised abortion should be allowed to take Communion, and that led, through a quote, to another speech, one given in 1960 by John Kennedy when he was running for president. In some ways, his view is kind of gnostic ... religion seen as only personal and not a part of public or communal life ... yet with the recent fervor in the other direction, I have to say Kennedy is sounding pretty good to me right now.
Here below is just part of the speech, which can be found in its entirety at Beliefnet ....
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While the so-called religious issue is necessarily and properly the chief topic here tonight, I want to emphasize from the outset that we have far more critical issues to face ...... But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected President, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured--perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again--not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me--but what kind of America I believe in.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.
For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.
Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of Presidency in which I believe--a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office ......
Whatever issue may come before me as President--on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject--I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.
But if the time should ever come--and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible--when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.
But I do not intend to apologize for these views to my critics of either Catholic or Protestant faith--nor do I intend to disavow either my views or my church in order to win this election ..... I can "solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution...so help me God.
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Here below is just part of the speech, which can be found in its entirety at Beliefnet ....
*****************************
While the so-called religious issue is necessarily and properly the chief topic here tonight, I want to emphasize from the outset that we have far more critical issues to face ...... But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected President, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured--perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again--not what kind of church I believe in, for that should be important only to me--but what kind of America I believe in.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.
For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.
Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of Presidency in which I believe--a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office ......
Whatever issue may come before me as President--on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject--I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.
But if the time should ever come--and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible--when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.
But I do not intend to apologize for these views to my critics of either Catholic or Protestant faith--nor do I intend to disavow either my views or my church in order to win this election ..... I can "solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution...so help me God.
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posted by crystal | 2:32 PM
8 Comments:
While I would like to believe that anyone elected president would put the country first, I think that his religious views ARE going to effect what he does and how he guides the nation, and as such are important to the voter. At least for my part morality is an important part of presidential material. As for Kennedy, I wonder how he justified his beliefs with ordering an attempted killing of Castro or the Bay of Pigs invasion.
And I respect the Bishops right to preach what they believe to be the proper morality that one should have. This is their job. But I don't think that public threats of excommunication is effective.
I am also bothered by the isolation in which this occurs. No condemnation of a politician supporting an unjust war or any of the other evils that go on. Nor have I heard anything from them on the morality of moving a sexual abuser from parish to parish. No denial of communion there.
All this kind of makes me think that they are trying to divert attention from something else, to somehow gain more control or more power.
Preach against abortion, violence, unjust wars, birth control, I think that this is proper. But trying to force those beliefs into law simply means to me that they have failed to properly lead us to a moral lifestyle, so now they will try force.
Of course these thoughts may change on a daily basis :). Right now I am facing a little problem called prostate cancer, and I do find that some of my thoughts and beliefs are shifting in some strange ways.
Hugs,
Mike L
Mike, I'm so sorry to hear you aren't well. I hope things improve - you're in my prayers.
Sorry, that sounds so inadequate ... really hope you get better!
Crystal,
The fact that I am in your prayers is not only adequate, but most appreciated. So far the bone scan was negative, Monday they do the prostascint scan and on the 11th I meet with the urologist to decide on what treatment to follow.
It does change one's perspective on life, as I suspect you already know. The comments about "sever degeneration of the spine" at least tells me that there is a reason why I ache when I get up in the morning.
Is kermit doing any better? Hope she is smart enough to come and cuddle with you from time to time.
Hugs,
Mike L
Kermit seems to be ok now - normal and happy again. This must be the hardest thing in life - caring about people and realizing how fragile they are. I hope yourtests have good results!
Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.
Words for our own time. I think what concerns me most about so much of the religious rhetoric in our country right now is how divisive and exclusionary it is. "If you don't believe like I do, then you are my enemy. You are the Other." Excommunicate the ones who don't think the same way. There seems to be so much fear. Rather than serving as a beacon of hope, joy and love, restoring and making whole again a fragmented and wounded humanity, religion seems to be digging trenches against all the enemies. It's the Muslims, the Mexicans, the non-Christians, the scientists, the Liberals, the Conservatives, etc. We seem so far from Martin Luther King saying that ALL God's children, black and white, Jews and Gentiles, will sit together at the table of brotherhood. The tapestry seems to be unraveling - and people don't want to work togther to make it whole again, They just want to get rid of everyone who doesn't think like they do. God forgive us and have mercy upon us.
So glad, btw, to hear that Kermit is doing better. Prayers answered!
Hi Will,
Thanks - that's what I think - prayers answered :-)
Yes, it never seems to really get better, the rifts between belief systems.
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