Who speaks for the Church?
Sorry my posts have been so erratic - appearing and disappearing, etc. I'm not getting much sleep with Kermit sick and the "little grey cells" are not functioning within acceptable parameters. Part of the problem too is figuring out what's ok to post ..... my political and religious views seem pretty different from others' and my interests outside those areas are odd too. I don't know where I fit in or what might be of interest, or, solipsistically, if that even matters. But trudging on .....
I saw a post at America's blog today that asked an interesting question and had an answer to it that I liked ..... Who Speaks For The Church? by Michael Sean Winters. Here's a little bit of it ....
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Who speaks for the Church in the realm of politics?
The question has been the subject of some controversy in recent days. Bishop Martino in Scranton showed up at a politics forum that was discussing the U.S. Catholic Bishops’ Conference document "Faithful Citizenship." Instead of commending his flock for listening to, and discussing, the bishops’ instruction, he denounced the text: "The USCCB does not speak for me," he thundered ......
(snip)
The same night the Bishop of Scranton was denouncing his confreres, I attended a presentation by Msgr. Stuart Swetland for the group Fellowship of Catholic University Students (FOCUS). He gave a fine and even-handed presentation of the Church’s teachings. In the Q-and-A, someone asked for whom he was going to vote and he declined to answer. "I think it is a mistake when a priest indicates who is going to vote for," he said. "You all have to decide for yourselves how to apply the Church’s teachings to the concrete circumstances of the election."
So, who speaks for the Church at election time? You do. We all do.
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I agree with this, but how do we decide how to decide for ourselves? :) I've been thinking a lot about why I have the opinions I have on the political issues - why am I so sure same-sex marriage is ok though the Church is against it, why am I pro-choice when the Church is not, why do social programs for the poor, the state of the environment, and the way animals are treated matter more to me than to some other Catholics? I'd like to say my choices are something of a combo of ethical (A Framework for Thinking Ethically - Santa Clara University) and Ignatian (Decision -Making in a Faith Mode - John Veltri SJ) rumination, but I'm not sure. At least, though, the choices are (sort of :) mine.
I saw a post at America's blog today that asked an interesting question and had an answer to it that I liked ..... Who Speaks For The Church? by Michael Sean Winters. Here's a little bit of it ....
*****************
Who speaks for the Church in the realm of politics?
The question has been the subject of some controversy in recent days. Bishop Martino in Scranton showed up at a politics forum that was discussing the U.S. Catholic Bishops’ Conference document "Faithful Citizenship." Instead of commending his flock for listening to, and discussing, the bishops’ instruction, he denounced the text: "The USCCB does not speak for me," he thundered ......
(snip)
The same night the Bishop of Scranton was denouncing his confreres, I attended a presentation by Msgr. Stuart Swetland for the group Fellowship of Catholic University Students (FOCUS). He gave a fine and even-handed presentation of the Church’s teachings. In the Q-and-A, someone asked for whom he was going to vote and he declined to answer. "I think it is a mistake when a priest indicates who is going to vote for," he said. "You all have to decide for yourselves how to apply the Church’s teachings to the concrete circumstances of the election."
So, who speaks for the Church at election time? You do. We all do.
***************************
I agree with this, but how do we decide how to decide for ourselves? :) I've been thinking a lot about why I have the opinions I have on the political issues - why am I so sure same-sex marriage is ok though the Church is against it, why am I pro-choice when the Church is not, why do social programs for the poor, the state of the environment, and the way animals are treated matter more to me than to some other Catholics? I'd like to say my choices are something of a combo of ethical (A Framework for Thinking Ethically - Santa Clara University) and Ignatian (Decision -Making in a Faith Mode - John Veltri SJ) rumination, but I'm not sure. At least, though, the choices are (sort of :) mine.
posted by crystal | 11:14 AM
17 Comments:
Crystal,
I think our views on abortion and gar marriage are pretty similar. I think it's good to be challenged on them and to take seriously what we hear from the hierarchy concerning them, but in the end everybody has to make up their own mind.
I read about Martino on the Commonweal blog. What a power-mad jerk. Once again, I barely pay attention to bishops anymore.
I hope Kermit does better.
Hey Crystal!
I think that liam was trying to say that we Christians can always agree to disagree until we finally get it "Right". Right?
sinner vic, I can speak for myself but thanks just the same for trying! :)
God Bless,
Peace
"The Saint is a medicine because he is an antidote. Indeed that is why the saint is often a martyr; he is mistaken for a poison because he is an antidote. He will generally be found restoring the world to sanity by exaggerating whatever the world neglects, which is by no means always the same element in every age. Yet each generation seeks its saint by instinct; and he is not what the people want, but rather what the people need...Therefore it is the paradox of history that each generation is converted by the saint who contradicts it most."
G.K Chesterton on Sts. Francis of Assisi and Thomas Aquinas
I wouldn't censor your topics based on whether others will like them or not. I certainly don't, in spite of the fact that only a very small handful of people ever read what I write. Somethings just need to be said regardless. Maybe being Christian is about more than agreeing with everything we say to each other. Maybe a part of it is about being able to love and respect each other in spite of not seeing eye to eye.
And you just might be the sort of saint some people need to hear...not what we want, but what we need. ;o)
Prayers to you and Kermit too.
I think I know what you mean. I actually think that the vast majority of bloggers out there wonder if they have much of a like-minded "constituency." I know I often do.
As to your question, Father Hehir said in his homily last Sunday that he frequently gets asked by the media how Catholics should vote. He stresses the importance of focusing on both the life issues and the social justice issues, but he tells the press:
"There are three things Catholics agree on - There are three persons in the Trinity, seven sacraments, and two collections on Sunday."
What about you? Are you on board with those? ;-D
I don't know what Martino is going on about, and Chaput is really getting on my nerves. I thought Winters drew him over the coals pretty good in that post. Speaking as a "private citizen" or not, you could make an argument that he single-handedly puts the Church's tax-exempt status in question by carrying water for the Republican Party the way that he does.
Crystal, I was just preparing to express on my blog my outrage over Martino. You beat me to it. A couple of other quotes from Martino at this meeting.
"No USCCB is relevant in this diocese."
"The only relevant document...is my letter."
"There is one teacher in this diocese, and these points (about abortion) are not debatable."
"I no longer support the Democratic Party."
To disagree with me is "madness."
When are we going to stop making timid excuses for this insanity?!!! Jack
usccb
Hey Crystal, just a question to satisfy my own curiosity: Is it true that Catholics have to agree completely with the Pope in order to be considered a "true" Catholic? Just wondering as a friend of mine (who is the daughter of a former Catholic nun) has told me that from time to time.
I like what Cura posted - you may only have a handful of readers, but you only need to influence one of those to create a stir ;)
I go off to wash my hair, and get six comments :)
Liam -
Thanks about Kermit. I do think you and I have really similar takes on politics.
Hi Victor -
I like that idea, agreeing to dosagree until we get it right :)
Cura -
Thanks for the good thoughts for Kermit. She's becoming a little bag of bones, not eating.
Jeff -
Ha :) I like what Father Hehir said - I think I just barely make the cut, given his criteria.
Jack -
Yes, good question.
Dyan -
: Is it true that Catholics have to agree completely with the Pope in order to be considered a "true" Catholic?
Probably everyone else commenting here could answer that question better than me :) But I'll take a stab at it. Not everything the Pope says is considered "infallible" so I'd say "no" we don't have to agree with everything he says to be good Catholics. Also, there's a section of The Catechism of the Catholic Church about the primacy of conscience - it seems to say that it would wrong to advise a person to disobey their informed conscience, even if obedience to conscience means disobedience to the Church.
There's an article by Jesuit Thomas Reese - link that gives some tips for how to figure stuff out . Here are a couple of the tips ....
"5. It is important to distinguish between law and doctrine. If you are a conservative and want a return to the pre Vatican II liturgy, don’t let anyone tell you that you are a heretic. If you are a liberal and believe that married men should be ordained, don’t let anyone tell you that you are a heretic. The question of married priests, the question of Latin in the liturgy, these are not doctrinal issues. These are matters of canon law and liturgical law. Laws have changed over time, laws can change again.
6. Understand the level of authority of a doctrinal position with which you disagree. Popes have only made two infallible declarations since Vatican I, the time when the infallibility of the Pope was defined: on the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception. Some people tend to give all Vatican statements a definitive or infallible status, and that is just not the case.
Today we see that even longstanding teachings of the church can sometimes change. The church now teaches that capital punishment is wrong, whereas for centuries it had no problem with it; in fact, popes executed people in the papal states. Likewise, the Church is rethinking its position on limbo. Most theologians now believe that unbaptised children go to heaven. This is not what I learned in the Baltimore catechism."
Part of the problem too is figuring out what's ok to post ..... my political and religious views seem pretty different from others' and my interests outside those areas are odd too. I don't know where I fit in or what might be of interest, or, solipsistically, if that even matters.
I could've written the exact same thing about my life and my confusion over blogging.
Sigh...
But do keep trudging on. The world needs your voice.
Only, don't delete Steely Dan next time! :-)
You're not as isolated as you feel in terms of politics and religion, though I understand why you feel that way. I spend most of my days feeling like I'm a total freak in my own country.
Liam, obviously, agrees with you on abortion and gar marriage, although I'm a bit confused about the latter. Is the pope coming down on gars now? They seem like pretty straight-forward fish. I did read, however, that their eggs are poisonous. Can gars be married in California? Do they even live in California? The largest gar ever caught was in Trinity River, Texas, in 1954, and weighed 50.31 pounds. They're also in Mexico and Florida.
Honestly, I wasn't even aware that fish got married. But I don't see why they shouldn't if they want to.
As far as I know, Benedict hasn't endorsed either candidate, so I'm not sure what difference it makes what the bishops say. They're just spouting their opinions like everyone else. They only have as much credence as people give them.
Sorry to hear about Lady Kermit. I said/will say a prayer for her.
Gar marriage.
Hi Crystal,
I am very sorry to hear about Kermit, I know what we went through with Kiki and my heart goes out to you and Kermit both.
Speaking of hearts, I went in for a stress test three weeks ago and they locked me in the hospital till they could schedule bypass surgery. So I have been a bit out of the loop, and my gray cells are also not functioning well, but they caught the problem before I had a heart attack, so I will recover. I think my surgeon was really a Myan priest, but he did a great job.
I do not always agree with your political, moral, or life outlook, but I believe the world would be a much poorer place with out it. You will never know how many times my wife and I have found your postings fascinating and illuminating. We both wonder at the breath of your knowledge and interest. Please keep it up as I, for one, need to hear what you have to say.
As for who speaks for the Catholic Church? I certainly find the bishops that I hear about are a bunch of prima donas full of pride and self importance. I suspect that there are some very good ones out there, but they certainly do not get the press.
I find Marino's denial of collegiality repulsive and far from the Church's teaching.
In the end I will say that since "we are the Church" we speak for ourselves in what we do and how we behave.
My thoughts, which you may or may not agree with :).
Love and Hugs,
Mike L
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thanks Crystal! I really want to understand and your info helped :)
Praying for Kermit too,
Hugs ~ D
On gar marriage: WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE FRY?
Mike,
Oh not fair that you just get past one problem to be hit with another! I'm glad you're ok and mending. You are very resilient.
Thanks for the kind words and for the good thoughts about Kermit.
Dyan,
thanks for the prayer for Kermit. If you're interested, there's another blogger, a former seminarian, who has a number of pages he's written (see the sidebar of his blog) on practically every Catholic issue you can think of ..... link
Garpu,
Trust you to drag in that issue - I think it's just a red herring :)
.
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