Discerning the spirits on YouTube
One of the most important things that can be learned from a retreat like the one given online by Creighton University, based on Ignatius' Spiritual Exercises, is the discernment of spirits. I'm not the best person to try to explain discernment and why it is so important, but I'll give the basics a try ...
Ignatius thought that our thoughts and feelings are either self-generated or come from without us, those from without being influenced by the good or the bad spirit. That sounds spooky :-) and I'm not sure what most modern Jesuits would say about those influences - whether they are metaphorical or actual spirits - but the result is perhaps the same ... they draw us either toward or away from God. Since, as I mentioned in my post on retreat week 4, Ignatius thought that we are created to be drawn toward God, doing things that bring us in God's direction feel good (consolation) and doing what turns us away from God feels bad (desolation). Given this, discerning the spirits, figuring out if what you are doing is influenced by the good or bad spirit, allows you to make spiritually informed decisions and choices.
It's more complex than this, of course, and I don't understand it well myself, but hopefully you sort of get the idea. I happened upon a YouTube on the discernment of spirits that has a number of different people saying a few words on the subject .... it barely scratches the surface, but .......
Ignatius thought that our thoughts and feelings are either self-generated or come from without us, those from without being influenced by the good or the bad spirit. That sounds spooky :-) and I'm not sure what most modern Jesuits would say about those influences - whether they are metaphorical or actual spirits - but the result is perhaps the same ... they draw us either toward or away from God. Since, as I mentioned in my post on retreat week 4, Ignatius thought that we are created to be drawn toward God, doing things that bring us in God's direction feel good (consolation) and doing what turns us away from God feels bad (desolation). Given this, discerning the spirits, figuring out if what you are doing is influenced by the good or bad spirit, allows you to make spiritually informed decisions and choices.
It's more complex than this, of course, and I don't understand it well myself, but hopefully you sort of get the idea. I happened upon a YouTube on the discernment of spirits that has a number of different people saying a few words on the subject .... it barely scratches the surface, but .......
posted by crystal | 10:00 PM
11 Comments:
I think you summed it up quite well actually. If you're at all like me, sometimes explaining it for others helps in your own appropriation as well.
I don't know about the whole 'spirits' things either. I've seen so many people take these ideas to such a frightening extreme that it makes me very leery.
I do like the the language that talks about those thoughts, ideas and inclinations that draw us toward or away from God. If you get a chance (or maybe you have already) pick up a copy of CS Lewis' 'Screwtape Letters'. It's a short book and a quick read but he does a great job in showing how those evil influences might work.
Hi Cura,
I think I read that CS Lewis book back in school but don't remember much about it. I guess I find the "bad spirit" stuff kind of creepy .
I really like the idea, though, that what God wants for us is the thing that will make us happy. I usually imagine God wanting me to do stuff I dread, that he wants me to be an employee at a job I hate but that needs to be done. Ignatius sees it so differently.
Crystal. I really like your blog. Let me ask you a question, and please do not feel offended. Were you a baptized christian before you became catholic? If you were the RCIA protocal says you should NOT be refered to as a "convert". That term is reserved for non christians coming into the church. If you were baptized you should be called a 'baptized christian' coming into full communion with Rome. Probably doesn't make much difference, but just a point of information. Jack
Hi Jack,
No, I was not a baptized christian before I became a catholic. I'm using the word convert in the most general sesne, I guess, as opposed to being a cradle catholic.
I'm with you Crystal, I think sometimes the Church appropriates words and phrases and tries to reserve them in ways that restrict their meaning in ways that were never really intended.
I was baptized Catholic and, by Catholic Law have been a 'cradle Catholic'. In reality (and honestly Law ought to be related to reality) I was never raised in a Catholic home, never went to church and never lived a life of faith. My journey in the RCIA was a full, and true and very real conversion. In the fullest sense of the word. It was a re-creation, and re-birthing, a dying to an old life and rising to a new one in a way that my infant baptism never was.
Along the 'spirits' theme. I had a lady come into my office once in tears, in the grips of a desperate panic. She and her husband had been trying to have a baby for years and had some very serious failures with artificial means. If I remember the story correctly, a few months previous to our visit a friend at work had given her a fertility idol of some kind (Hindu or African I can't recall). She was now eight months pregnant and it had been casuing her no end of stress and anxiety that her seemingly miraculous pregnancy was the result of some evil spirit associated with the idol she'd been given. She was in a panic, gripped with the fear of her own superstitions, worried that somehow her child would be tainted by this dreaded and mysterious evil or that God would smite her or her child and that evil and horrible things would happen.
It took me hours to 'talk her down'. I remember being so angry that such fear of evil spirits had been instilled in this woman to such an extent that she had not even been able to revel in the great and awesome gift that God had given her.
It was very sad.
Crystal,I disagree with cura. Does she regard her baptism as invalid? Vatican 2 made the change to make it clear that other christians need not repudiate or degrade their religion to become catholic. Convert implies a complete change from non-christian to christian and a repudiation of the person's prior christian experience. Certainly cura's baptism was the most significant step in her christian life.
This, as you may know, has become an issue between the 'traditionalist' and the Vatican2 supporters. In my view the 'traditionalists'are trying to emphasize the great inferiority of other religions by insisting on the word "convert" in direct opposition to the church's position and teaching that there are other christians, who are not yet in full communion with Rome.
As you may also know, probably unfairly in many cases,for years the term convert was applied to those from another christian religion who were overly zealous when they became catholics. This I'm sure does not apply to cura.
I am proud of my Anglican heritage, Anglican family, and Anglican friends. I, of course, will be even more proud of my communion with Rome. Best wishes to both of you. Jack
Cura, my deepest apologies. I should have looked at your blog, which is also really good. Then I would not have called you a "she." Very sorry, but at least I found your blog. Jack
Cura,
I was like you, though not baptized. My family didn't go to chirch but my gamdmother and her sister were Presbyterian, so I wasn't a total stramger to christianity. My RCIA classes, though, didn't really do the converting - that came later when I took the online retreat. When I think of "conversion" I think of metanoia, sort of - a change of heart :-)
Jack,
I do like the ecumenism of Vatican II and I don't use the term convert to mean it's better to be catholic than another kind of christian .... it's just better for me :-)
No Worries Jack. I'm pretty difficult to offend. ;o)
Glad you liked my blog.
As for the whole conversion thing. I think the difficulty is in the scope that we're speaking about. I would make a distinction between the use of Conversion in reference to someone who changes denominations and the use of the word (as Crystal points out) in reference to 'Metanoia' or that interior change of heart or turning around/turning toward Christ which is something that all Christians are called to do on an on-going basis.
I agree, my baptism as an infant set my feet on a path to Christ (that I did not even know I was on), but it was not a conversion (in either sense of the word). That Metanoia did not happen until much later in my life. And thanks be to God that it did!
Cura, Crystal. Thanks for your responses. The "convert" thing was a big issue with me. I had taught philosophy for years, my entire family from my wife side was catholic, I gave a series of talks on Newman. The Church very wisely said there was a difference between a cathecuman and a candidate and that RCIA should be careful not to confuse the two. However, most catholic churches, because it was easier just 'lumped' them together. Of course the funny part was I was advancing the Church's position and my wife's parish church was opposing the Church's position.Having been on the vestry of an Anglican church for years, and having done considerable academic work at the doctorate lavel on philosophy of religion I did not think I should go the full RCIA route, which is what the Church officially says; that RCIA should be adjusted to the new catholic.
Well it all got worked out. Thanks. Jack
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